tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1858583177975255300.post5281744728965637211..comments2024-03-26T01:43:30.774-07:00Comments on Dans le sillage d'Advayavajra: Tuer père et mèreHridayarthahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10713264962804395563noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1858583177975255300.post-73383790692809222872014-06-25T02:03:32.152-07:002014-06-25T02:03:32.152-07:00"who believed the venom from their own old bi..."who believed the venom from their own old bites was reactivated by the heat or the music" http://exequy.wordpress.com/2014/06/24/dancing-mania/Hridayarthahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10713264962804395563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1858583177975255300.post-19758281031378268492012-12-11T22:58:15.895-08:002012-12-11T22:58:15.895-08:00Hi Dan, eight months later... Reading the original...Hi Dan, eight months later... Reading the original passage again in the bodhisattvacaryavatara (chapter 9), the example seems to concern a hibernating bear (what explains the winter part), not any person. "Although the (hibernating) bear does not experience being poisoned (when bitten) by a rat, later, from hearing the sound of thunder (in springtime, he awakens and) experiences pain. From this he indirectly remembers (that he must have been poisoned. The means whereby consciousness is recalled is) similar (to this)." Translation by Batchelor.Hridayarthahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10713264962804395563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1858583177975255300.post-36188996663323427822012-12-11T22:56:56.626-08:002012-12-11T22:56:56.626-08:00Ce commentaire a été supprimé par l'auteur.Hridayarthahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10713264962804395563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1858583177975255300.post-26318270712720157632012-04-08T11:47:46.876-07:002012-04-08T11:47:46.876-07:00Dear J, I agree.
Anyway, it's the process o...Dear J, I agree. <br /><br />Anyway, it's the process of unfolding of awareness of things ( or not things) that makes sense, that makes hanging out in the world sensible, at least now and then. *Not* reading books by people who think they have it all figured out. *That* doesn't do it for me. Blogging is more atuned to that knowing "process", I'd say. One hard thing about it is admitting slips along the way. I know this from experience. It's really necessary, though. To admit when you slip up. Or when you just didn't understand right. (Not that you ever have, mind you. I'm talking generally here.) I think practically everything we get right is still partly off.<br /><br />Sorry to end on that seemingly skeptical note. Keep that blogging faith, not that you need this advice, since I see you've written 8 already this month!<br /><br />Yours,<br />DDanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10453904366382251766noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1858583177975255300.post-82097159530082713872012-04-03T05:05:58.574-07:002012-04-03T05:05:58.574-07:00Thanks a lot Dan, this is brilliant. I updated the...Thanks a lot Dan, this is brilliant. I updated the article by adding a link. You are a genuin detective! Verse 23 is beautiful. I am more and more convinced that Wikipedia-like publishing is the way to go. Linking information. Otherwise we end up having to put footnotes all over the place and repeating information again and again. Isn't that the way synapses function anyway?<br /><br />I feel I will become a fan of the poisonous rat exemple. Prepare to see it re-emerge! <br /><br />http://www.orpha.net/consor/cgi-bin/OC_Exp.php?lng=FR&Expert=99903<br /><br />Yours,<br /><br />JoyJanushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13818341476501505611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1858583177975255300.post-36369020930112592812012-04-03T03:54:54.272-07:002012-04-03T03:54:54.272-07:00Oh my, I may have spoken too soon. Again! Try sc...Oh my, I may have spoken too soon. Again! Try schmoogling "Spirillosis" or "Rat bite fever." Japanese call it sodoku (not sudoku, something my mother is addicted to). It can take 2 to 4 weeks for the symptoms to manifest... and then the fever keeps coming back at regular intervals. Evidently it has nothing to do with the perhaps better known "cat scratch fever."<br /><br />One book says that cases have been clinically recorded for 2,000 years, the first recorded cases being in India.<br />Look <a href="http://books.google.co.il/books?id=Td3wvXneWsIC&lpg=PA247&ots=8rNtTzJ3tQ&dq=india%20spirillosis&pg=PA247#v=onepage&q=india%20spirillosis&f=false" rel="nofollow">here</a>.Danhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10453904366382251766noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1858583177975255300.post-14391514990572625632012-04-03T03:30:45.492-07:002012-04-03T03:30:45.492-07:00Oh my, I have the English,Khenchen Kunzang Palden ...Oh my, I have the English,Khenchen Kunzang Palden & Minyak Kunzang Sönam, <i>Wisdom: Two Buddhist Commentaries</i>, Padmakara, tr. (1993). I finally found the verse, it's verse 23 of chap. 9:<br /><br />" 'But if,' you ask, 'the mind is not self-knowing,<br />How does it remembver what it knew?'<br />We say that like the poison of the water rat,<br />It is from the link with outer things that memory occurs."<br /><br />Interesting, perhaps this was Padampa's source, since it's known that as a young man he studied Shantideva's text at Vikramashila with a teacher whose commentary on it was preserved in the Tanjur (Kshemadeva, who also served as Padampa's ordinator... I should look into this some more)...<br /><br />If you look at the commentary on p. 52, it looks even more as if there is something viral about memory. To quote a bit of it (p. 52): "Suppose in winter one were bitten by a poisonous water rat. One would, at that moment, be aware that one had been bitten, but not that one had been poisoned. It is only later, at the sound of spring thunder, that the venom begins to act and one realizes that one had been poisoned at the same time as being bitten."<br /><br />The thunder is the trigger, evidently.<br /><br />(To tell the truth, I would admit that the Tibetan who wrote the commentarial comments on Padampa's metaphors could have skewed things in a somewhat different way [I could come up with a few other examples where I think this happens], especially given that I suppose Indians in those days would have been familiar with the phenomenon of water rat contamination, but a member of a different time and culture might not... Like you, I know nothing about it. I don't suppose it could have been the plague...)Danhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10453904366382251766noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1858583177975255300.post-29895809608154452662012-04-02T23:38:59.309-07:002012-04-02T23:38:59.309-07:00Dear Dan,
Thank you for the reference to Padampa....Dear Dan,<br /><br />Thank you for the reference to Padampa. I found the same exemple mentioned in Advayavajra's commentary to Saraha's Dohakosa. And yes it is an excellent exemple for latent poisons, which vasanas and anshuayas are. I see the aquatic rat poison as of viral nature, a virus with an incubation time, and that becomes active as soon as the immunal defense system wavers. I wonder what aquatic rat this could be?<br /><br />Patrick Carré mentions "Comprendre la vacuité" (pages 25 and 131) as his source. I don't have the book myself (http://tinyurl.com/88t493d). It is a Frenche translation (by Padmakara) of the commentary by Khenchen Kunzang Palden on Chapter 9 of Shantideva's Bodhicaryavatara. I wonder whether it will mention the original source, although the Lankavatara is not bad as a source. The sutra doesn't explain it though, so it must be a known example.<br /><br />JoyJanushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13818341476501505611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1858583177975255300.post-76175082941424880842012-04-02T11:39:54.936-07:002012-04-02T11:39:54.936-07:00Is it clear where Carré got his explanation of the...Is it clear where Carré got his explanation of the rat poison metaphor? I'm very interested in this. Padampa doesn't even name the sutra that we know must be the source of it... But does the sutra itself explain it?Danhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10453904366382251766noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1858583177975255300.post-56602694833474541672012-04-02T11:15:28.551-07:002012-04-02T11:15:28.551-07:00Padampa: "One day, not lacking rats' poi...Padampa: "One day, not lacking rats' poison, liberation will not be obtained."<br /><br />Padampa's commentator: "Rats' poison means the poison of the water rat. When you have taken this poison it stays with you, and although it doesn't immediately cause the onset of sickness, later on, when you encounter some accidental condition, the sickness comes. If you immediately treat it, it is no problem. Likewise also with these poisons of the kleshas. If you have destroyed them from the very first you will be liberated from rebirth in lower realms. At the moment of death regret serves no purpose."<br /><br />It looks like water rat poison remains latent until there is some kind of a trigger. Quite like those anushayas, really.Danhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10453904366382251766noreply@blogger.com